Why Saying "No" Is the Key to a Sustainable Creative Business

Every creative starts in “yes mode.” Say yes to every project, every client, every opportunity, because that’s how you grow. But at some point, that pace stops working. In this minisode, Jen Talley, Courtney Wiesel, Alli K Designs, and the Off the Walls Murals team share what changed when they started getting more selective. Turning down projects that don’t fit. Referring work instead of forcing it. Protecting time, energy, and family life. These are the decisions that shape a business you can actually keep up with. If you’ve been stretched thin or stuck taking on work that doesn’t feel like you anymore, this conversation brings you back to what matters, and shows how saying no creates space for better work, better clients, and a business that fits your life.

In this episode, you’ll hear:

• Why Jen Talley shifted from saying yes to everything to choosing projects that actually fit her life and direction
• What changes when you stop trying to be everything to everyone and start building around your strengths
• How Alli K Designs handles out-of-scope requests by referring, delegating, or bringing in the right people instead of doing it all
• How understanding your market helps you say no with confidence, and avoid work that won’t sell or scale
• The mindset shift that helps you price, choose, and operate like your ideal client.
• The Off the Walls Murals team’s approach to setting work hours, protecting family time, and keeping the business sustainable

Hit rewind on these episodes:

• Selling on Marketplace in 2026 with Jen Talley of Perfectly Imperfect Furniture Refinishing
• Coming Back From a Creative Break with Courtney Weisel of Steel Birch Studios
• Setting Your Prices as an Artist with Alli K Design
• Building a Creative Business with Your Best Friend feat. Caroline & Tianna of Off the Walls Murals

Welcome to Brush & Banter—the podcast where creativity meets real-life hustle. Brought to you by Zibra, we go beyond perfect brushstrokes to explore the messy, magical, and meaningful side of being an artist. We’re here to bring you conversations with working artists, practical tips to grow your creative business, and a built-in painting companion for your next project. 

Brush & Banter is co-hosted by Brie Hansen, President of Zibra; Annie Bolding, Founder of It’s a Disco Day Designs; and Lauren Cooper, Founder of Rosemont Lane Design Studio.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Welcome to another special episode of Russian Banter. I'm Bree Hansen, president of Zebra, and co-host of the show. This week we're pulling together some of the most important conversations we've had around building a sustainable creative business. In this mini sode, we're talking about something that can be surprisingly hard: saying no. Whether it's turning down projects, setting boundaries with clients, or protecting your time, these decisions often shape your business more than the yeses do. You'll hear from Jen Talley, Courtney Weisel, Allie Kay, and Off the Wall Murals as they share how learning to say no has helped them protect their energy, value their work, and build businesses that actually support their lives. We hope this episode gives you permission to be a little more selective and reminds you that saying no is often what makes the right yes possible.

SPEAKER_06 0:59

This started from a hobby, so I didn't really know what I was doing. I don't regret spending that much time on it because that's what helped me learn and it's what helped me grow. But what I am more intentional about now is setting boundaries, I guess, for myself and my business. So I used to say yes to everything, yes to every piece of furniture, yes to every client, yes to every partnership or brand deal or anything like that. Um, and again, I don't regret that because that's what helped me grow and learn. Um, but now um I'm just more intentional about what like not only the time that I'm taking on my business, but what is gonna work for me and what aligns with what I want to do and the and the direction that I want to go. This hasn't changed too much, but I've always wanted it to be well, perfectly imperfect, obviously, is the name of my business, but I tell people all the time like it's also my life's motto. Um, so I want my business to be like that, nothing is perfect. Um, but that's what that's what makes it me. That's what makes it good. So yeah, I just try to keep everything in line with that.

SPEAKER_07 2:15

Yeah. I love hearing that, you know, that in the early days maybe the boundary was a little more loose, but you have been a bit more firm in that and it makes for a more sustainable business, I'm sure. And something that I think people should pay more attention to.

SPEAKER_06 2:28

I guess knowing knowing your market is huge for me. And that's something that I think just happens over time because you know, you you see what sells, but like just because I love uh seeing this person's furniture doesn't mean that that type of furniture or that style is gonna sell in my market. So, in order to be successful, I think you need to really find out what works for you and where you're at. And I feel like, you know, your demographics and ge geographic has uh so much to do with that.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

How do you deal with it if someone, a client comes to you and they want something that's just not in your wheelhouse or in your vision, and it's something that you don't necessarily want your name on? How do you approach something like that?

SPEAKER_08 3:11

Early in my business, I would definitely be like, I can do anything. Yeah. And then you kind of like say yes and figure it out later. Is that an Ally K quote? Maybe. But um I relate to that now, a little bit further in my business. I am more humbled by being like, here's someone who can accomplish that for you. Or as I've grown my business. So with my murals, I often have other people on the job with me and I will like resource people for it, delegate or hire someone that I know can handle it. Um, because I'm always like, I know I can get this done. I just don't necessarily have to like have the pride of like doing it myself.

SPEAKER_04 3:49

How about you? Yeah, I think that's huge. Um your time is so precious, you know, and it's like you you gotta spend it doing what you're passionate about, what you know what's important. And yeah, in the beginning too, it was just like I don't know. I was taking commission pieces like the first week I was doing you know, furniture in general, and it's just like I just didn't have any idea. And then as you grow, I think, and then you learn, it's just like wow, I really don't like doing that, or it's not like what I it's not my style. And um, yeah, I think finding other artists that you know do you know are more tailored to like their needs. Like I don't do kitchen tables and chairs, it's just not something that's a that's a huge, huge um project, but there are some people that do, and you know, um yeah, I like supporting other artists and businesses and um having those referrals I think has been huge. And also just like the confidence of like there's different kinds of doctors that treat different things, you know. Like no, I'm not a doctor, but you know, specializing in what you're good at and you know, having confidence in that I think is important. Being a mom and an artist, like yeah, it's just I mean, they are both the most important things, you know what I mean? And but like being a mom and being present for my kids and running a business. I mean, it's just like how do you juggle all of it? And what I'm just like really doing this this time in my life is just like reeling back, living in the moment, um, appreciating where I'm at, even if it's not comfortable, you know, and just kind of like it used to be about the hustle and you know, go, go, go. And when I just had one kid, it was even like I was able to hustle and crank out pieces and work all the time. And now honestly, I feel like life is just abruptly changed for me. And I think in a good way in the end, I needed to be kind of reeled back and take a break and kind of just get my priorities right. And you know, I'm me, I am the biggest project that I'll ever work on, you know, and I think that that's important to just well it's everything, you know, my mindset, my health. Um, you know, I I want to be able to go to sleep at night, and you know, I'll be able to create, I always will. Um like who I am as a mom and as a person, I think is the most important thing.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

So I'm a Pisces and I'm a um Enneagram too, and I'm very sensitive, and I definitely am in tune to other people's emotions, but also very in tune to my own, and it's super helpful. Um, and so I know my body and I know my brain and how it reacts, and luckily I can figure out what works and what doesn't work, and when I feel this way, I need to do this way. Um, and so social media has again ever evolving, um, and it's a quick change, and so I'm having to ever evolve how I react to it. Um, so I've quickly learned that I love you, I support you, but I can't follow you on Instagram. Um, so I actually don't follow a lot of other artists because it's just not helpful for my mental stability.

SPEAKER_08 6:54

It sounds like you do a good job at putting on not blinders, but boundaries that you can respect. So you have an awareness of what's going on in the community because I feel like you're really tapped into the community, but you also have your own boundaries that protect yourself, and you that's not meaning that like everyone has to do that. Some people might need to get inspired, but like you recognize that about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Yeah, I think the real magic is off of social media. Um, and so that's like me going to an art camp or FaceTiming my small community of mural friends, and they keep me up to date on on things like that. Um, but yeah, I think the doom scrolling other artists, it's great, but man, it is just it gets you into that uh trap of comparison and it's just not healthy. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

I mean, that's everything with social media, I think. Anybody can relate to that, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Right. It's a love hate relationship because like I have met some of my very best friends through social media. Um, so I can't hate it too much, but it is uh yeah, monster. I know.

SPEAKER_07 8:08

I know as you guys are continuing to grow off the walls, is just gaining some traction. Obviously, your friendships had to grow with it, and that does sound like it's been taking a lot of intentional conversations. What sort of boundaries or systems do you think that you guys put in place to protect the business as you're growing while taking into consideration that it is a friendship as well?

SPEAKER_05 8:30

So we have boundaries for like our personal eyes. I don't know if we have any between else. Maybe we should.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Maybe we should. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 8:39

Um, I think I mean together we've kind of decided like, so for example, like we used to work weekends and nights and everything. Um, I don't know if this is what you're asking, but we've together decided to put a boundary. Like, we don't work super late into the evenings. We both have little kids. So we make sure that we have family time. Like we we both decided together, like we still need time with our family. We're not working weekends anymore, unless it's like the occasional like live painting or something, um, or we have to go out of town. We try to make sure that we have time for our family still. Boundaries between us two, we're just kind of figuring it all out as we go. Like this year, we were like, we don't have a vacation policy in place. Like, what if one of us takes off two months and one of us only takes off a week? So we kind of we like I said, as we go, we added a sheet where we can write down so it's like somewhat fair.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

I had a pretty long vacation last summer, so then we just traded off time. Like she went and then I took care of everything, and then I left and she took care of everything. We just kind of tried to keep things even in that regard. We've quoted some really massive projects before and we're like, oh, that was scary. Um, I feel like we actually have the opposite problem. Like, we always undercut undercut ourselves. We're like, you know what? We actually could have gotten more for this project. Um, and so we've just recently started to be like, no, like we know our work, we know our value, we know what other people are charging. Even though the price tag might be bigger than we are personally comfortable spending, like if we were gonna buy this mural, we are not our ideal client. We are not these corporations that we're painting for. And so we have to try to take ourselves out of the equation, which I think was especially early on, kind of a sticking point for us in pricing. We're like, we are not a big company with these budgets. So seeing these numbers that we're quoting feels scary. So then we would undercut ourselves, get the project, and we're like, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_07 10:35

I feel like that's such a wonderful aha moment. I'm not my ideal client. Because, no, I mean, obviously, yeah, sometimes I've quoted projects where I'm like, oh my god, that was so high, it scared me. But yeah, you're absolutely right. Like, I'm not this big brand with millions of dollars backing it. I'm not, I just love that. So thank you so much. That was a beautiful golden nugget moment for me to be here. Thank you for listening to the Brush and Banter Podcast, brought to you by Zebra. We're so grateful you're a part of the creative community. Gearing up for your next project? Head to enjoyZebra.com to grab your new favorite brushes, designed for comfort, precision, and serious creative flow. Be sure to follow Zebra Painting on Instagram for painting tips, artist features, and more. If you enjoyed our banter, subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts, and don't forget to leave a five star rating and review. Now, go make something beautiful. We'll be here when you need a little banter.