Brush & Banter | A Zibra Podcast
Welcome to Brush & Banter—the podcast where creativity meets real-life hustle. Brought to you by Zibra, we go beyond perfect brushstrokes to explore the messy, magical, and meaningful side of being an artist. We’re here to bring you conversations with working artists, practical tips to grow your creative business, and a built-in painting companion for your next project.
Brush & Banter is co-hosted by Brie Hansen, President of Zibra; Annie Bolding, Founder of It’s a Disco Day Designs; and Lauren Cooper, Founder of Rosemont Lane Design Studio.
Brush & Banter | A Zibra Podcast
How Following Up Helped Abby Pawley Paint for Amazon and IKEA
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Abby Pawley started by painting surfboards in Virginia Beach, then said yes to a 50-foot mural festival wall that changed everything. Five years later, her work has shown up in Amazon’s main entrance, an IKEA Monet collaboration, local landmarks, and commercial spaces across her community. Abby shares how she left a warehouse job with no perfect plan, followed up until clients answered, handled the panic of large-scale projects, and learned to keep painting through the ugly middle when even she needed to trust the process. She also talks honestly about AI-generated client requests, social media pressure, public rejection, and the kind of persistence that can turn a “no” into the next wall.
Abby Pawley is the Virginia Beach artist and muralist behind Pawley Prints, creating colorful murals, coastal-inspired pieces, and large-scale commercial work for brands and local spaces. Based in Virginia Beach, her work carries the influence of her high school art teachers, who encouraged her early on, and the community that helped her grow.
Connect with Abby:
Creative Finds:
- Zibra 1/8" Detail Brush – our most requested size, launching July 30 at enjoyzibra.com (use code BANTER10 for 10% off)
In this episode, we discuss:
- Why Abby left her warehouse job after her first mural, even without a perfect plan
- How steady follow-up helped turn an Amazon referral into a real project
- Why referrals still require persistence, clear communication, and self-advocacy
- What changes when your work moves from small surfaces to 50-foot walls
- How artists can get through the ugly middle of a project without spiraling
- Why Abby’s most effective social media posts are often the simple, honest ones
- How sharing rejection can build trust with your audience and help other artists keep going
Welcome to Brush & Banter—the podcast where creativity meets real-life hustle. Brought to you by Zibra, we go beyond perfect brushstrokes to explore the messy, magical, and meaningful side of being an artist. We’re here to bring you conversations with working artists, practical tips to grow your creative business, and a built-in painting companion for your next project.
Brush & Banter is co-hosted by Brie Hansen, President of Zibra; Annie Bolding, Founder of It’s a Disco Day Designs; and Lauren Cooper, Founder of Rosemont Lane Design Studio.
Connect with Zibra:
It almost seemed like too good to be true at first. I was like, there's no way Amazon's gonna hire me. Like, that's crazy.
SPEAKER_05And even though I'm telling the client, like, just trust the process, just trust the process. I'm like, no, that's for me.
SPEAKER_02When you're not meant to be doing something, it felt like I was in like purgatory every day. Look at me going. Literally. Transforming spaces, transforming myself. Oh my god, this is like too much. Oh my god, I can't do this. And it's like, oh my god, I can't believe I did that.
SPEAKER_03Welcome to Brush and Banter, podcast where creativity meets real life hustle. Brought to you by Zebra. We go beyond perfect brush strokes to explore the messy, magical, and meaningful side of being an artist.
SPEAKER_04I'm Bree Hansen, crafter at art, creative cheerleader, and president of Zebra.
SPEAKER_05I'm Annie Bolding, muralist, designer, lover of all things that sparkle, founder of It's a Disco Day Designs.
SPEAKER_03And I'm Lauren Cooper, muralist, designer, creative mama, and founder of Rosemont Lane Design Studio. We're here to bring you conversations with working artists, practical tips to grow your creative business, and a built-in painting companion for your next project. So grab your favorite zebra brush, pop in your headphones, and let the banter begin.
SPEAKER_05Hi, friends! Welcome back to Brush and Panter. I'm Annie and I'm here with my co-host Bree.
SPEAKER_01Hi, everybody. Today's episode is for the artists who are juggling a lot of creative lanes at once: murals, products, collaborations, client work, and trying to build something that feels both exciting and sustainable.
SPEAKER_05Today we're joined by Abby Pauly, the artist behind Poly Prince. And Abby is a muralist and artist whose work brings color, character, and meaning into the spaces that she paints.
SPEAKER_01Her mural portfolio is full of big, thoughtful projects from local landmark marks to coastal inspired walls and large-scale commercial work, including a three-wall installation for Amazon's main entrance in Virginia Beach.
SPEAKER_05She's also expanded her art beyond walls through different creative opportunities, including the IKEA Monet Collaboration, which I can't wait to hear about. So we're going to talk to her all about that today.
SPEAKER_01So if you want to learn more about managing different mediums, growing through big opportunities, and building a creative business with intention, this episode is for you.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So Abby, woo!
SPEAKER_02Welcome to the podcast. Hi guys, I'm so excited to be here.
SPEAKER_01We are so excited to have you. So let's jump right in. And obviously, we have to start off by talking about the big brands that you've worked with Amazon, IKEA. Um, I'm guessing those weren't your first big projects, though. So walk us through the journey of your career, your projects, and which ones started out in your business and how you worked up to secure those larger contracts.
SPEAKER_02So I actually I'd say from the beginning of my career, I actually was known for painting surfboards because I live in a beach town. So I did that like all the time. And um, even my my dad's like a big surfer, so he had a piece of my art printed on a board and then like sealed. Um, so that was really what I did before murals, and my first mural was there's um an art district where I live, and it's called the Vibe District, and they do a mural festival every year, and it's like 10 murals and 10 days, and it's this whole big thing, and I honestly didn't even realize we were doing it, and I just applied one year and I just got it, and that was my first one. And um, I never really thought about doing murals until I did my first one, and then it kind of like changed my brain chemistry. I was like, wait, actually, I think I wanna like do this for a living.
SPEAKER_05You like catch the bug, it's like the high of just like this is like a do this, like this is it feels like chasing, at least for me, like doing murals. Like, I'm always like chasing that flow state and that high that I got the first time of like, oh my god, this is amazing. I didn't know I could.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's so crazy. There's like so many emotions that go into it though, because you'll be like, oh my god, this is like too much. Oh my god, I can't do this, and it's like, oh my god, I can't believe I did that.
SPEAKER_05Really the the full uh what is it, the life cycle of grief?
SPEAKER_02Yeah to accept it. Literally, that's being an artist, I feel like.
SPEAKER_01Um what was it about painting murals that made you feel like, oh, this is cool, I might want to do this from what you were doing with surfboards.
SPEAKER_02I always grew up wanting to do art as a job, but you're told so much by everyone that it's not sustainable, it's not a real job. And it is kind of hard when you know, I was painting on such small scales, it's like, okay, well, how many paintings a month do you have to sell to make this work? Like, and then you do something so big and it it's not only like good money-wise, but I feel like I don't know, painting something so large scale like grows you as a person because it's just a lot of um, I don't know, it's a lot on you like mentally and physically. And I feel like after you do one, you're like, wow, I can like do anything. Truly.
SPEAKER_05I I feel like doing big spaces, like they transform the space as much as they're transforming like you, knowing that you can do something that grand. Like every time you level up to a different, bigger project, it's like I look at me, look at me going. Really? Transforming spaces, transforming myself. Um it is, it's like a lot on it's a lot of energy and and to put into the world and to put into yourself.
SPEAKER_02It is, and my first ever mural was not small. It was like Yeah, I was gonna ask. I can't remember if it was like 50 or 60 feet, like it was huge, so it was kind of going from like surfboards to like.
SPEAKER_05Did you did you make mistakes on that project looking back that you're like, that is so funny now? Because I just wouldn't knowing what you know now, you look back and you're like, that was like a big obvious one or something.
SPEAKER_02I I feel like in the beginning I did not understand going from canvas to wall, that there are different surfaces and different ways to prime surfaces, different paints that work better on different, like I would say stuff like that.
SPEAKER_05Like, okay, yep, you live and you learn. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I guess you did that first wall, and that kind of jump started your just drive to do even more. Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01So, how did you go from that first wall then to getting um some of these bigger contracts with Amazon and IKE?
SPEAKER_02When I did that first wall, I was still working a nine to five job, and it was kind of the tail end of my job. Like, I already knew I didn't, I was working in a warehouse. I was just so I'm an artist and I'm I have a degree, but I'm stuck. Like, what am I what do I want to do? But I did that mural and I was like, okay, actually I'm just gonna quit my job. Like, I had no plan, no future projects, but I was like, I'm gonna make this work. And I just I posted so much on social media as I still do, but I posted so much about the first wall, and I reached out to literally everyone and their mom. Like, hey, this is what I do. Like, if you need a mural, um, there was a lot of outreach, and it started to like snowball a little bit, so I quit my job, and my mom's my assistant, so she helps me with everything. But I would say there was definitely a long buildup before I started getting. I mean, we're talking for three or four years before I got the Monet exhibit, and then I just got Amazon like last December. So, I mean, and I've been working for myself for five years, so it definitely took some time, but a lot of like consistency and reaching out to people and just posting all the time and like really putting myself out there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Cause I feel like for some people the shift happens like later on, if the especially if they're juggling like their nine to five and art, it sounds like, and you know, I I'm curious to hear about like the mental shift that you made of just like, okay, I'm gonna quit my job and I have to like refocus all my energy on this um because it has to work. You know, can you talk us through like that mental shift of like, okay, this is like it's all or nothing. I just have to do it.
SPEAKER_02The mental shift for me was I was going to my nine to five, and all day I was not happy. It had nothing to do with the company, but it just felt like when you're not meant to be doing something, it felt like I was in like purgatory every day. Like I just was not happy, but you'd go to work nine to five, and then I'd come home five to midnight, and I'd be painting or working on commissions, like all these things, and then I was like not getting a lot of sleep because it was more important to me to be doing stuff that made me happy, and you're almost like trying to make up for it when you get home. So I just feel like I I just got really tired of it to the point where I was like, I just I don't know, I don't have a plan, but I can't do this anymore. So here we go.
SPEAKER_05Literally, it I went before I went full time too, it was like I just constantly felt like I was pouring into somebody else's cup when I was getting up and going to a job that wasn't like for me. Every day I would just like cry. Like I just feel like I'm I'm expending like the best of my energy at the peak of the day for somebody else's dream. And and I would have these like yeah, minimal hours at the end of the day, and you're just like, what is like purgatory? Like every you get up and you're like, I just have to keep going. I'm just doing it. And I I love though that you were like, I'm just gonna quit.
SPEAKER_02I'm just gonna do it. It just gets to that point, I feel like, where I just remember I like contemplated it for a while, and then I didn't even tell anybody, and I just went to work and I was like, Hey, I'm putting my two weeks in.
SPEAKER_05Deuces I'm out. Um when I talk to people who are like artists, like nobody ever says, like, oh, it's because I was bad at my job. Like they are like successful working in other roles, and it's hard to give up that, like, okay, well, I know I'm sustaining this, like I'm good at my job, even though I love being here. Um, and it's like a really hard thing, at least for me, it was like it was hard to walk away from like I'm good at this, and it makes me money, it's safe. Um it's scarier to stay and regret staying, like my whole life kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02No, it is, and not be happy. And like my job was working in an athletic company's warehouse. So, like, I'm just packing boxes and moving things and shipping them in all day. I was just like, I feel like a minion, like I need to do something that matters.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, especially when you're creative, you feel so trapped. Like you you don't have that creative outlet. Yeah. Let's see. So, was it after you did that first mural that you ended up quitting? Was it like after you did that that you just made the decision? Or did you do others and then go back to it?
SPEAKER_02I did the one, I think that was in August. I think it took me a couple months to quit after that. I I sat on it for a while and was trying to like see and talk to my parents and just like, I don't know, can I do this? Like suss it out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome, though. It sounds like that was truly your aha moment. So that's that's cool. So talk to us about because I'm sure a lot of people listening to this will want to hear more about like the consistency of you reaching out to Amazon and how you finally were able to land them. Talk about that process. Did you have to email them a bunch? What did you say in your email? How did it, how did that relationship start?
SPEAKER_02So Amazon was actually there's a lot of that, but it also was a referral. Nice. I have a friend from back we were like 14 or 15. She worked for this company that I did a mural for. They're like a big balloon company. And Amazon had hired them to do like their huge entrance, like grand opening with all their balloons. And they had asked them if they knew anyone who did murals. And um, my friend, she's awesome, she referred me, but they're very hard to get in touch with. Oh, I mean she had told me, like, yeah, so-and-so is like interested, she wants to use you, but like I hadn't heard from them in so long, and I would text her every week, hey, I just want to connect with you. Hey, like I was very on it, and I didn't it almost seemed like too good to be true at first. I was like, There's no way Amazon's gonna hire me. Like, that's crazy. What do you mean? And so yeah, I stayed emailing her when she didn't answer, texting her when she didn't answer, and then finally it was like, hey, we're ready for you to come in. And I toured the place, and I it was just so like surreal.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome, and like so important for everyone to realize, myself included, because I think you feel bad, keep following up with people like week after week. You're like, oh, like, do they really want to hear from me again? Are they ever gonna answer me? Probably not. And I do this too when I'm trying to cold sales email people to get them to buy our brushes, and it's can feel very monotonous, but you have to kind of stay true to it because when they're ready, you were there. So that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I feel consistency really matters. My grandfather used to say, like, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and like let's just not wrong.
SPEAKER_05I feel like for me at least, if I knew it was a referral or they reached out, I have no problem being like the most annoying person on the planet. Like, oh yeah, cold emailing is a little different. Like, then I start to get like, okay, like I'm being annoying. But I'm like, hey, but if I was referred to you and you knew I was coming your way, or you reached out to me and you're not responding, I will I will follow up. Like one of my biggest projects that I've done too, like it was somebody who filled out an info form for me and was like, oh, we have like several walls, and I just kept emailing back and back and back. And finally she got back to me and she's like, Thank you so much for like continuously emailing. Like, I'm horrible at email and I never check it. But I came in and I found your thing, and like it was like one of the best projects ever.
SPEAKER_02And it's like, if I hadn't have been just shamelessly irritating, you have to be though, like you really have to advocate for yourself because, like I said, this was a referral, but they did not reach out to me first. It took a lot of me bugging them and then not hearing back, and I'd be like, Oh, they ghosted me, they're not gonna because like I mean, you know, we you've probably been ghosted. I've been ghosted by a ton of clients, and I was like, oh, too good to be true. And then they pop back up, oh hey, sorry, I'm actually really bad with my phone, or or it went to spam a thousand times.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I feel like for me, I'm like, until I get a no, like a definitive no, then I'm just gonna keep sending the email because like, I don't know, maybe it's just gonna spam. Maybe they're not even being annoyed. Maybe they're not gonna be. Like that's true. So it is like a a crazy thing. And also I love just like on the topic of referrals, like the notion of people talking positively about you in rooms that you're not in. Like there's something so special I think about being an artist, and when I get a referral, and I don't know if like you feel this way too, because I'm sure that you do get many referrals, but it's like this little feeling of like you like my work and you want to work with me. Like I caught you in like pitching your name in a room you're not even in, which is yeah, that's the best kind. Yeah, or you know, you know, you've you've not like made it, but you know, people like your work.
SPEAKER_02No, it is a really good feeling, and I'm super grateful to my friend, like she's amazing for that. We we like keep up with each other, but we don't we haven't hung out truly since like high school. So for her to like put me out there was incredible.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you don't even have to be like BFFs for a referral to work out, which is great.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
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SPEAKER_05Um I'm curious though, so obviously, like, you know, you've done quite a few large-scale projects at this point and something like Amazon. Like, how do you prepare for like the physical, for the creative, for the logistical, like demands that something of that large of a scale?
SPEAKER_02So something I've learned is when I first started doing large-scale projects, I was trying to plan out every little thing. But like, I mean, of course, you handle the essentials, like the mock-ups on the iPad, the pricing, materials, whatnot, but I've kind of learned that the best skill in planning a mural is just adaptability because every time I start a project, like day one, something's going wrong. There I've learned that there is like my plan is to like not plan. Like something changes, something goes wrong, like days are pushed back. Um I would say physically I can prepare because I I try to get like massages regularly because my shoulders, I feel like if I don't, they're like up here, like stuck. Yeah. Um, I get acupuncture. I do all the planning physically, I feel like. Other than that, I can take care of I know for sure I can control everything else.
SPEAKER_05We're just gonna go. Yeah. I feel like, yeah, the massages is important. Acupuncture sounds scary, but I think that I've heard that that's helpful.
SPEAKER_01It's so helpful. A lot of people that do it swear by it. Like it's supposed to. I know it kind of is scary though.
SPEAKER_02Well, because your muscles that get so tense, it's like they chill them out a little bit, which I it's very noticeable, especially when you're like painting eight hours.
SPEAKER_01And I don't know about you, but my shoulders are just my shoulders are bad just from sitting, so I can only imagine painting, yeah.
SPEAKER_05So, in terms of then, like obviously like the preparation physically you're taking care of, but do you feel like you've done enough projects now, like where your maybe anxiety or any sort of like excitement for a project changes from like these jumbo projects or like even smaller ones? Like, do those projects hold a different weight in your mind about like this is an Amazon or you know, this is like a mom and pop shop?
SPEAKER_02I think no matter who it is, there's always that I I grew up playing sports and like before every soccer game I felt a little nauseous. And I feel that same anxiety before a project, and I think it's like excitement. It doesn't matter if it's Amazon or it's like you know, some small shop, it's just very you're like competitive with yourself, you want to make sure it looks perfect because I am I'm a perfectionist. I've started a mural, gotten halfway through, and been like I hate it, and then I paint over and start over because you want it to be exactly like how you envisioned.
SPEAKER_05So that part is really hard, I think. Being a I'm also a perfectionist, and like I feel like uh most of the project I'm actually just wrestling with myself internally because every every mural has like the middle ugly phase, and even though I'm telling the client, like just trust the process, just trust the process. I'm like, no, that that's for me. I'm trying to trust the process, yes, because it's scary. You're like, okay, am I gonna have because like you said, like am I gonna paint over this and start over? Because I know that I'm capable of doing that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And will I do it? The ugly phase messes with your brain. You're like, am I bad at my job?
SPEAKER_05Am I horrible? Like, who gave me the permission to be here painting on this wall? I'm actually a vandal.
SPEAKER_02Literally. And and you do get like clients sometimes love my clients, but sometimes when it's in the ugly phase, they don't understand and they'll be like, What's that? Why are you doing that? Is it gonna look like this? And I'm like, You're stressing me out.
SPEAKER_05Is it gonna is it gonna stay like that? And you're like, no, please stop. You're scaring me because you don't trust me. Now I don't trust myself. Like, no, literally. Also, I have like a side tangent question for you because I saw it um on your it was one of your reels, and I laughed because like this has been happening to me lately too. And it said, like, when you design a beautiful mock up and your client comes back with some AI thing. Like the creative approach that we're trying to take to like make something beautiful and these clients are popping in with like no can you just do this like has this been happening for you like more and more like I'm curious to hear from like another muralist about their experience with this because I've had like I've had like more than a few hits picked up and they're like no I want something just like this and I'm like first of all that's AI and also I don't want to paint that um like and they're like adamant about like well you could just paint it like I didn't make that that's stolen from somebody else I'm curious to hear from you.
SPEAKER_02I haven't dealt with it a lot until very recently when I made that real because I was like oh my god and I love this client I yeah am doing a mural for them soon and I had done like the cutest design and spent hours and hours on it they said we're good to go and then I get a random couple pictures two months later that's like here's the updated design and I'm like wait what do you mean and it's all AI and I'm like you want me to paint that are you sure let's steer away from this because it's like it just messes with the creative flow of like you as an artist and you as a painter and yeah so when they do come back with the AI what do you say like how do you get to the point where you're comfortable doing the design? Uh this is something I'm still working on like how to be professional and not rude also because people want what they want but I don't remember what I said back but I was like okay so are you saying you want to change it to this now and like I can do this but it's gotta have like my style to it it's not gonna you know because people send you something it's someone with like seven fingers and you're like do you want the seven figures or do you just want five just wondering just curious maybe just five or five um well no AI is a great thing to add to the contract.
SPEAKER_05I was gonna say what I've been letting clients know when they're sending a over AI stuff is like the whole point of you reaching out to me is because you wanted something human made. You wanted like a transform space by human hands. You didn't even want to go like a digital like this is there's other routes but you chose to do this and I think like for the integrity of like the design like yes I can take this out as like um mood board inspiration and it's but it's not going to be that because that's not our style. That's not why you wanted me to do this in the first place. So I think like there's a fine line for it all but um I guess this also leads into my next our next question was just about like the project that you worked with um through IKEA and the creative like approach for that like was it difficult to blend Monet's style with your own?
SPEAKER_02Did you feel like that was like a fun challenge like I actually loved this project. I have never I've always been a huge fan of Monet. My mom's a huge fan of Monet and um I especially love the lily pads but my approach to that was just to mimic his style which I found surprisingly easy because I think the way he and I learned this just like staring at this picture for hours and hours he just like layers things so it's kind of hard to make mistakes if you know what I mean because it's just so layered I feel like there's so much going on in his paintings that like oh well that could be like a lily powder that could be you know like a flower like it's I don't know I loved doing it. I found it like cathartic. It was nice. It feels like maybe it just sort of flowed yeah there was there was definitely an ugly phase where I was like oh my god I can't do this traumatized. So how did that project come to be so that was also a referral but that was the Monet immersive experience was collaborating with the Virginia Arts Festival and a woman who worked for them connected with one of my old high school art teachers and she referred me to her which was so cool all my old art teachers like follow me on Instagram and they keep up with me and I literally love that. I'm like I love you guys. Sounds like you went to a great high school I did I did I loved my high school and loved my art teachers they were so great. This makes me want to go look up my art teachers and be like remember me that's why I get paid to do it now literally because I did not have that experience as a kid I don't know if you've seen I was rejected from like an art academy as a kid and my art teachers in like elementary school they were really mean and so getting to high school and having I had Mr. Butz and Miss Thurman and they were just the greatest people that made me like love art again. Your art teachers in elementary school were mean they were scary I remember some kids would like cry and go home early because I didn't want to go in there.
SPEAKER_01That's sad. That is so sad in elementary school like when you're just like discovering the love for something oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_05Yeah it's horrible the the art teacher there's like I feel like everybody has you there was nice art teachers and then there was just rigid mean art teachers because I feel like I had the same experience where like elementary like middle school mean awful teachers but I also feel like maybe they're fighting a bigger demon which is just adolescence and children mess and chaos that maybe when you're in high school you're you're actually present in the moment and you can create but that's so fun and so wait so did you I mean you you said that you loved art growing up and you you know you went to school for it. How did you end up like not pursuing it immediately, you know, after like going to school for art?
SPEAKER_02I went to college and I got a communications degree.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_02I changed my major like four times. I did dabble in art there for like a semester but it felt like my homework was harder than if I was like an engineer. It would keep me up all night and it was these like tiny little stupid projects and then you'd have to stand up in front of the class and get like crucified by everyone like they'd be like all right now tell her everything she did wrong and I was like I hate this that sounds awful yeah I would also change my okay so you you were you did the IKEA project um and like you know we're asking about um like that didn't I mean did did you feel like that aligned with your style immediately or did you feel like you kind of had to figure out a way to like okay how do I make this align with my style and you know what my goals are for you know my business um yeah that one it definitely was not my style but I didn't hate it. So I was like I'm gonna try this like I like the bright colors I like the plants and the flowers like let me try this I think I can make it work. I also thought it was just a really good opportunity to have it like at the Monet immersive experience because I love those things. I've gone to I don't know if you've gone to the Van Gogh one but when I went to the Van Gogh one I was like oh my god I'm obsessed with this like this is so cool. How do people get into this? And um so they had my dresser like right at the front of the immersive experience and um it was more like hey this is a really big opportunity you should try this out yeah do you still paint canvases I see on your Instagram you still have a lot of canvas uh art that you sell do you still do that or is that more just like a hobby now and you're full on murals I love to paint on canvas it's just do I have the time like I really want to have the time I have like eight to ten canvases sketched out that have been sitting there for so long and I want to paint them so bad but when I'm doing murals it's like do I go paint from nine to five and then come home and then sit down and paint like so I want to be better about when I have breaks in between like getting some more of those done because I really do enjoy doing that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah they're so cool. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_05Thanks what would you say is something that you learn from working with like that a big collaboration like that that you know you wish that you could share with with everybody about maybe it was about the process it was about how they worked with you or um any tidbit of information of like doing a collaboration at that scale?
SPEAKER_02Um I would just say going in with confidence like that's a big thing I like if you were chosen to do something like that then like you deserve to do it. And I know at the beginning I had a little like my God why would they choose me like this isn't I've never done this style before like I think it's just I don't know you have to believe in yourself advocate for yourself like if somebody picked you obviously you're good enough to do it. Preach.
SPEAKER_05I agree I think it's like well you you get in your head about like am I supposed to be here and it's like yes you're fine if you were chosen for a reason they want to work with you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah no imposter syndrome get out of here so you talked a lot about how your business has grown through referrals but you also hinted at at the beginning you grew a lot through posting a lot on social media. So walk us through what how social media impacts your business and how you've been successful at growing to such a bigger audience.
SPEAKER_02That has been trial and error I in the beginning it's like scary and almost a little embarrassing to be posting all the time especially when people from your hometown or high school not that this matters and it shouldn't but they're watching you and so it's like putting yourself out there like hey guys look at my art like it feels so scary but if you just like get over the fact that we're all just like living our lives and nobody cares and if they do like it doesn't matter so I try to pay attention this is hard but I try to pay attention to the trends that are happening especially like in art videos but also not like I've seen some funny trends and it's like post with your talent but pretend it's like pose with them like how men do with fish. Oh yeah yeah yeah like building up the the trend um so I think following trends was like really important and I found what helped grow it on social media was not putting too much into it like I think the videos where people are editing for hours or just like trying too much I end up taking a stupid clip that doesn't even look that great and slapping something on it and it's like oh it's going viral like always it's literally the most infuriating part of this game. Yes so it's just putting yourself out there all the time which is what I did and I post the same thing with new words like I still do mashups of videos from five years ago you gotta save everything post everything just put yourself out there.
SPEAKER_05It is hard to stay consistent and also the like keeping up with the trends or keeping an eye on the trends requires that you're looking first you have to be scrolling maybe doom scrolling yeah which is just hard and I feel like that's as a you know as a a creator it's like you have to find the fine line of intaking and outputting versus just like I'm intaking I'm doing research I'm looking for trends and it's like at what point did you just you just you veered right and you're just completely doom scrolling for a while now because I feel like that happens to me so much where I'm like oh no I'm just looking at reels for ideas.
SPEAKER_02Yeah it can be very overwhelming but something that I've done which I have to if I can't remember the account's name I'll have to send it to you but there's a girl a couple girls who post every week like uh slides of videos that are trending this week with the audio with the um like captions so I'll just save them and then like the end of the day I'll go and I'll look at them and I'm like do any of these fit? Like can I make this fit? And it's just a lot easier like following people that put that stuff out there.
SPEAKER_05See that's a helpful tip. Find the accounts that are doing the doom scrolling for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah God I wish I could remember the name because this one person is like very helpful.
SPEAKER_05It is hard sometimes to try and figure out like how can I make this fit for me that feels authentic to me. I feel like that's something I struggle with. Especially as like like for artists we have our own brand we have our own style and so for me I'm like okay I also want my videos to pause up I blend in with my own stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yes it's a tricky game. It is and I I don't force it anymore. I used to force things like I gotta post this amount of times and I got to do this. And it just became like no I like this is taking away from the whole point just do what you do and then just throw something on there because chances are your best video is one that you didn't care about.
SPEAKER_01Right, right right right right and you gotta have fun or else it's gonna show through your account that you're not having fun with it I think and then it just whole thing is not not great because it's a yeah you can tell when it's forced yeah.
SPEAKER_05All right so Abby we would love to hear about your golden moment of the week so this is maybe a project that came together in an unexpected way or maybe it was a message from somebody who was impacted by your work or just like one of those moments where you kind of paused and realized you know how far you've come from from the start. So do you have a golden moment for the week to share with our us and our listeners?
SPEAKER_02I have a mix of those it's a I feel like I always have the moment where it's like whoa I can't believe I'm here like this is crazy. I get that a lot but something that's like super impactful to me is I posted a video the other day about how something like it may look like I'm winning all the time because I'm doing all these murals for Amazon which I'm so beyond grateful for. But I also was rejected from two murals this past month. One I really really thought I had I got rejected from an art exhibit that I really really wanted to be a part of and it was the second year in a row getting rejected and anyway I have posted a video about this and I got a lot of really nice messages and comments where people were saying they were just really happy about like my transparency and people were saying you know this is so inspiring to so many people it's a beautiful reminder that they were thankful they saw it and I actually had somebody they said they really need to hear this and that the right job will come to them at the right time and then actually a few days later they messaged me and they were like this is really crazy how you like manifested after seeing your video and I just booked my next mural client so like thank you for saying this and it's all just like so impactful to me to know I'm you know making a difference.
SPEAKER_05And it's true like rejection is redirection every time it is wonder we want to feel like that in the moment or not.
SPEAKER_01And just a reminder that like Instagram is a highlight reel not only for people's lives but yes for work too like you are just seeing people doing work and doing the big things and you aren't hearing about the things that maybe they don't get or they want to but haven't been able to do yet.
SPEAKER_02So that's yes really and I cool you I really want to remind people that because there are things that did not work out for me. Like I remember having this mural I was so excited for I worked months on this mock-up and then they just dropped me and used someone else and I was devastated but then I got the biggest mural of my career like right after and this was ocean storage. I don't know if you guys have seen that one but that one was like huge took three months and it was like everything happens for a reason.
SPEAKER_05Oh my gosh well thank you so much Abby this was such a fun conversation today it was so fun getting to chat with you and learn about your career and lots of just like important notes about you know this all doesn't happen at once it's all brick by brick. Yeah it just keeps building all those little moments accumulate to to where you've gone today. So thanks so much for chatting with us.
SPEAKER_02Yeah thank you guys so much for having me this was so fun I'm so happy we did this. Oh it was so nice to meet you in real life so thank you Abby um before we wrap up can you tell everyone where they can find you on Instagram your website you can find me at my tag is the same on everything polyprints.com polyprints on Instagram polyprints on TikTok it's all all there P-A-W-L-E-Y P-R-I-N-T-S that's where you can find me amazing well we'll make sure that everything is linked and as always so tag us uh at Zebra Painting and what you're creating we love to see what you guys are doing in the community.
SPEAKER_04We'll be back soon with more brush and banter until then keep creating keep collaborating and don't cry over scoping thank you for listening to the Brush and Banter podcast brought to you by Zebra.
SPEAKER_05We're so grateful you're a part of the creative community. Gearing up for your next project head to enjoyzeebra.com to grab your new favorite brushes designed for comfort precision and serious creative flow be sure to follow Zebra Painting on Instagram for painting tips, artist features and more. If you enjoyed our banter subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to leave a five star rating and review. Now go make something beautiful we'll be here when you need a little banter
